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Author Topic: What is the driver of the wargames industry? Rules or new figure ranges?  (Read 1576 times)
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« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2017, 10:42:47 AM »

Rules might start and enquiring mind into looking at something new, but this instantly leads to a search for the nicest figures or sometimes a desperate search to find any suitable figures in your scale of choice.

those manufacturers that are involved in both rules and figures seen to do rather well and have a focus on each servicing the other.
Lost Egg

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« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2017, 04:57:33 PM »

That's a tricky one. I guess its different for the various companies in the industry, some are very much fixed on a particular period (say Victrix) while others do almost their own thing and expect customers to buy whatever they do (GW). Certainly a lot of smaller companies have been providing minis for SAGA which is still very popular but then I don't think I've seen alternate minis for Frostgrave which is also very popular.

When I'm looking to spend my meagre gaming budget I am looking for a world-minis-rules combo. I kinda like the Celtos minis and I kinda like the old Celtos rules and I love the world but, with no movement on the 'new' rules I buy nothing. Also, I like some of the Age of Sigmar minis but I dislike the rules so once again I buy nothing.

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« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2017, 05:44:48 PM »

For me, I get pulled in from the miniatures.
Especially when someone posted online what they are
painting or have a great visual for the figures. It would
rare for me to get rules first and then start collecting figures.
mad scientist

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« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2017, 12:34:29 AM »

I think it varies from wargamer to wargamer.  I'm a reader and imaginer.  I like to see the stories I want to make it my head reality so I am drawn to figures first.  Pursuing rules to enframe the tales follows.

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scatterbrained genius

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« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2017, 11:01:11 AM »

From a modelling point of view, miniatures matter to me hugely. From a playing point of view, crappy or convoluted rules are a big turn-off.

I guess that I am initially attracted by a premise/setting/feel of the game's background setting first, and then I look to see if it has good rules and/or good models:

1) If other models are available that I prefer, but the rules are great on their own, that's fine.

2) If the models are lovely but the rules are poor, then I look for alternative rules.

Generally, I find (1) much easier than (2), but it depends on the background of the game.

Also, as somebody who's a modeller rather than a rules-writer, (1) is my preferred alternative if the game in question doesn't already have good rules and good miniatures.

I should also say that if the models are lovely but the setting doesn't interest me, then I will admire the models (and vicariously enjoy other people's modelling and gaming projects), but wouldn't buy them myself.
For example, I have no interest in modelling/playing historicals, but I greatly enjoy seeing other people's historical projects.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 11:08:52 AM by Major_Gilbear » Logged

My painting logs: Beyond the Gates of Antares, and Malifaux.
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mad scientist

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« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2017, 11:15:02 AM »

For me it is figures every time.  A new set of rules might bring a period to my attention, but the miniatures have to be atractive for me to consider it.

You can always change rules or write your own...


Mike Lewis

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« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2017, 11:47:31 AM »

for me it entirely depends on manufacturers and writers.
warlord games Black Powder and Bolt action rules I love reading and used to buy them as often as I could
Perry miniatures, warlord miniatures, Artizan Miniatures also drive me to buy more just because they are so lovely (as well as other manufacturers)

now...if we come to GW...the rules would never ever ever ever ever ever ever...ever...drive me. they can't write rules to save their lives.
but they produce great models and have pulled themselves together with pricing a feel
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« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2017, 11:57:49 AM »

I think this is also different for historical players compared to most Sci Fi and Fantasy games.

With historical games, the rules and figures exist independently. Often these are very different companies.  Artizan, Crusader, Empress and Perry do not offer rules as an important part of their business.  Similarly Osprey offer rules but no figures.

I generally buy the figures I like and then look for rules to go with them.

Many Sci Fi and Fantasy games, deliberately tie you into their worlds and hence their own figures.



bad hair day

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« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2017, 12:12:12 PM »

For me it's 1) the period 2) the scale 3) the available figures 4) the rules and very much in that order. Being able to recreate the look of any given period is important, and if I can also ultimately game with them, all well and good.
Cost is a factor, but if a particular period nabs you, the investment in time and effort usually far exceeds the initial costs considered.
Having said that, I have several branches of any given period, and many figures and scenic items can be used interchangeably.

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« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2017, 12:38:02 PM »

Generally, my line reasoning goes as thus:

Read about interesting moment in history


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« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2017, 12:59:29 PM »

I strongly dislike any connection between rules and a specific set of miniatures. I want to use good, fast-flowing, characterful rules, and I want to use them with miniatures that I like and, more importantly, own.

For that reason, I like games such as Song of Blades, Dragon Rampant and Hordes of the Things that allow you to match rules to figures either through profile customisation (SOBH and DR) or broad generic categories (HOTT). I'd note that when I played Warhammer as a kid, it was very much in that category too: you could build profiles for whatever you wanted, and you were actively encouraged to use non-Citadel miniatures. It always seems baffling to me when people seem to assume that they need certain figures to play a certain ruleset. Surely fantasy and SF games are all about imagination and making things up!

I also dislike "fluff" in wargames rules. I'll make up my own background or take it from books, thanks very much - unless the offering is at the level of Glorantha or Tekumel. The original 40K was interesting in this regard, as it provided a loose background framework and huge scope for "make up whatever you want". And early Warhammer was similar, in that it threw in a lot of obviously borrowed elements, added a few original ones, and left a vast amount of blank space. So I don't mind that kind of generic/mash-up/fill-in-the-blanks approach, and I'm all for literary inspiration. But I really don't see why every fantasy/SF ruleset needs a 'world' or 'universe'.

So the drivers for my purchases of rules and figures are completely different. If a ruleset sounds intriguing and original, I may well buy it. But I'll generally only buy (or dig out from the lead pile) miniatures that I want to paint and which I think will look good on the table.
Rich H
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« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2017, 01:15:50 PM »

My process for a new game goes thus:

Interest in the setting
Shiney models avaialble
Buy / read rules (I haev loads of rules I've never played)
Encourage my regular gaming buddies if they seem any good
If that works then we usually go off the deep end and end up with loads of stuff.
If it doesn't I stash the rules and they will get a re-read periodically and I try again.

Minis are only the means to play the game, we proxy regularly but mostly we have something suitable already to at least try things out.
galactic brain

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« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2017, 05:06:19 PM »

First, establish an area of the genre or era to be interested in - Fantasy was LOTR, Conan, Redwall, Witch World, and The 1970s Chainmail rules; Science Fiction was Star Guard/Star Ranger, Starship Trooper, BOLO, the Starguard rules; VSF - Tarzan/Princess of Mars, Zorro, IHMN rules; Historical - Ancients (book - Shadow Hawk,) First Crusade (abandoned,) Napoleonic warfare (abandoned,) Aerial combat 1914 - 1980s, Spanish North America in the 1600/1810 time frame; Colonial Wars - TS&TF (abandoned,) etc.,

Second, find miniatures to play the game.  Definite requirement.

Third, find or write (or rewrite) rules that give the necessary accuracy and flavor of the era/genre.


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galactic brain

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« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2017, 05:07:30 AM »

I can't say that a set of rules has ever prompted me to want to game a period. A range of figures has; at least in periods where I already have an existing interest, however slight.

I will admit that I usually find and buy the rules and read them cover to cover, well before I order any figures though.

 Roll Eyes

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« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2017, 08:05:11 AM »

Rules come and go but figures last forever.

I will usually get enthused about a period or campaign by reading a book, then I go off and see what other stuff l need to add to my collection in order to do it. Rules are a distant second, and if it comes to it, I can always write my own.

Like some of the other posters, I mainly buy rules to read, as a form of entertainment. I'll rarely play them.

Perhaps I am just odd:)

"Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" Helmuth von Moltke
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