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Author Topic: a few questions from Victory Decision ( future war in particular )  (Read 372 times)
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seldon
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« on: February 14, 2017, 04:05:08 PM »

1)  Close combat...

When assaulting enemies in cover, do they both add 1 suppression per casualty ? The rules could be read as only the defender getting them.  Same question applies to the combat within a structure if the attacker gain access, all those instances when the combat is simultaneous ( also does the defender count as activated after fighting in that simultaneous action ?)

Ferocious, does the modifier always kick in in combat ? It is only mentioned in the assaults against enemies not in the open.

2) Calling artillery, the action that allows you to call artillery show the profile of the weapons.. these show that they are one shot but 3 uses per turn... How is that interpreted ? ( and are they one use per element that can call them or one use for the whole side ? )
 

3) Is there any case when you cannot use a CP for re-roll ? Like what about a LD test to regroup or call artillery ?

4) overwatch, the use of psi in overwatch is only mentioned when you get assaulted.. is that the objective or was it an oversight and I can really use it in the other overwatch conditions ?

5) I understand correctly that vehicles cannot do overwatch, right ? It is not a listed action.. I guess part of the nerfing vehicles design concept.

6 ) when attacking with blast weapons, what side of the vehicle do I attack ? And would this be different for direct weapons with blast vs indirect weapons with blast ?

7) The rules explain how vehicles close combat infantry, what if infantry assault vehicles ? In the WWII rules the tank hunters gain special explosives but here in the sci fi rules they don't ?

Now a couple of design questions to understand some underlying design ideas:

A) concentrate fire is really an action that you want to use with weapons that you cannot fire twice in the turn, right ? Else I'd rather shoot twice than re-roll misses, correct ? Like for example.. ideal for a missile launcher ?

B) Pintle machine guns can be prevented from firing through the mechanic explained in the rules, even if they are remote controlled under armor ? ( not difficult to come up with a rationalization if it is aimed at game balance ).

C) I have 15mm guys but individually based... I've noticed that blast weapons in a way operate a bit different when attacking armies with multiple figures in a base. It is a good compromise given the smaller scale. Would you think that it make sense to treat the blast area as the diameter rather than the radius for individually based 15" or just use the damage dice x blast X" to each infantry unit under the blast area ? ... individually based 15s looks kind of so spread out when you try to avoid the blast areas..

D) On thing I missed before, seems obvious from the reading but just wanted to confirm... you do Take cover, and you could stay in that position with the take cover not going away while you shoot over future turns. It is not a one use effect that I lose once I have re-rolled my saves.. I will only lose it if I do one of the actions indicated, correct ? (This would make it a must when you get to a good position...)


Ok.. I think that is what I have for now... I'm having fun with the rules..

The basic Archetypes are fine, but I might later ask for some help on pointing out a few variants of elements to adjust to the universe that I'm representing... Hope you can help with that..

Aaaaand.... don't forget us .. Raid is cool but we still want the Robots expansion.. Smiley .. at least ideas Smiley !!!

cheers
Francisco
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 02:40:33 PM by seldon » Logged
Agis
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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2017, 01:33:47 AM »

I can't answer right away, being on vacation and no real net access.
I will come back and tackle these questions early march.
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cheers and keep on gaming, Agis - http://www.adpublishing.de
Agis
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2017, 02:01:42 PM »


Found a net access, I answer directly after each question >>>

Close combat...
When assaulting enemies in cover, do they both add 1 suppression per casualty ? The rules could be read as only the defender getting them.  

>>> p.20 "Fight simultaneous Close Combat: Roll Close Combat Dice for all infantry models participating that have at least one enemy model within their CR."
So yes, if the assaulting unit is taking a casualty, they also get a suppression marker.

Same question applies to the combat within a structure if the attacker gain access, all those instances when the combat is simultaneous ( also does the defender count as activated after fighting in that simultaneous action ?)
>>> as above, and the defender is not activated, quote again from p.20: "Note that this allows the unit in cover to fight even though they are not taking an action! "

Ferocious, does the modifier always kick in in combat ? It is only mentioned in the assaults against enemies not in the open.
>>> p.30:"during Assault and Close Combat actions" applies to all close combat dice!
I do not really understand the question, what is only mentioned in assaults not in the open?
 

2) Calling artillery, the action that allows you to call artillery show the profile of the weapons.. these show that they are one shot but 3 uses per turn... How is that interpreted ? ( and are they one use per element that can call them or one use for the whole side ? )
 >>> p.15:"A characteristic of 3 means that the weapon can be fired up to 3 times per turn"
And
p.101:"This unit may purchase up to 3 successfully resolved Air/Artillery Strikes."
And
P.37:"A weapon with the One-Shot feature can only be used one time per game. Once used, it is gone for good. "
So if a unit with the command ability has purchased 2 strikes, then uses 1 action and calls in a successful air strike, that strike is gone. With its 2nd action it could call in  another strike. So the strike can be called in up to 3 times per turn, but each strike on its own is only usable once.

3) Is there any case when you cannot use a CP for re-roll ? Like what about a LD test to regroup or call artillery ?
>>> just as p.18 6.2.1. "Command Points and Re-Rolls" says.
Regroup is mentioned and action based, since calling in artillery is a special action, so also action based, you can also re-roll.

4) overwatch, the use of psi in overwatch is only mentioned when you get assaulted.. is that the objective or was it an oversight and I can really use it in the other overwatch conditions ?
>>> can you point me to the relevant pages? I am a bit lost...

5) I understand correctly that vehicles cannot do overwatch, right ? It is not a listed action.. I guess part of the nerfing vehicles design concept.
>>> What is nerfing?
Otherwise, as you said, not listed, so not possible for vehicles. Smiley

6 ) when attacking with blast weapons, what side of the vehicle do I attack ?
>>> please check p. 35: "9.3. Blast/X" and p. 44:"11.4. Vehicle Facing " using the facings shown on p.45

And would this be different for direct weapons with blast vs indirect weapons with blast ?
>>> No, simply determine the facing from where you are shooting. And do not forget 3rd paragraph on p.37 for indirect weapons.

7) The rules explain how vehicles close combat infantry, what if infantry assault vehicles ? In the WWII rules the tank hunters gain special explosives but here in the sci fi rules they don't ?
>>> The tank hunter ability still gives a bonus, but the WW 2 weapons are indeed gone. The better ranged weapons make such desperate attacks unnecessary. If you still want to assault a vehicle just use the normal rules.

Now a couple of design questions to understand some underlying design ideas:

A) concentrate fire is really an action that you want to use with weapons that you cannot fire twice in the turn, right ? Else I'd rather shoot twice than re-roll misses, correct ? Like for example.. ideal for a missile launcher ?
>>> up to you, but yes, this is an obvious situation!
Wink

B) Pintle machine guns can be prevented from firing through the mechanic explained in the rules, even if they are remote controlled under armor ? ( not difficult to come up with a rationalization if it is aimed at game balance ).
>>> as you said and explained in the rules.

C) I have 15mm guys but individually based... I've noticed that blast weapons in a way operate a bit different when attacking armies with multiple figures in a base. It is a good compromise given the smaller scale. Would you think that it make sense to treat the blast area as the diameter rather than the radius for individually based 15" or just use the damage dice x blast X" to each infantry unit under the blast area ? ... individually based 15s looks kind of so spread out when you try to avoid the blast areas..
>>> no, just use the rules as it is, it applies for both sides, so no hassle imo.

D) On thing I missed before, seems obvious from the reading but just wanted to confirm... you do Take cover, and you could stay in that position with the take cover not going away while you shoot over future turns. It is not a one use effect that I lose once I have re-rolled my saves.. I will only lose it if I do one of the actions indicated, correct ? (This would make it a must when you get to a good position...)
>>> absolutely correct, only the actions listed on p.27 end the effect. By extreme a unit in a good position could stay in cover under the take caver action for the whole game.


Ok.. I think that is what I have for now... I'm having fun with the rules..
>>> great, if anything else comes up just chime in. Smiley

The basic Archetypes are fine, but I might later ask for some help on pointing out a few variants of elements to adjust to the universe that I'm representing... Hope you can help with that..
>>> just post any ideas here and we can discuss them then!
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seldon
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2017, 02:08:07 AM »

Awesome...

We played again today..   Game was even better than last time... almost every infantry unit on the table moved using hide, infiltrate and take cover... dramatic difference.. the game was all about pushing and suppression.. much fewer casualties...

Thanks for all the answers...

the points that were unclear

1) ferocious: it is mentioned as a modifier on page 20 but only on the first assault description.. doesn't show up in the modifiers on the same page under the "Assaulting units in Cover" it also didn't show up in Assaulting a structure. I guess from your answer that the modifier should always be there so I'll use it like that.
I thought that this was part of the difference.. for example also on page 20 it says all Damage dice from the assaulting unit can be re-rolled but it doesn't say that when assaulting a unit in a structure, so I assumed that you only got this advantage when assaulting in the open or in cover not when assaulting a structure.

4) overwatch, page 22, second paragraph of overwatch "..immediately make a free Shoot or Move action" ... later on page 23 following on the paragraph indicating that a unit can take an overwatch action when coming under fire it says "... that unit may make an immediate move, or shoot or Use Psi action"
I know this is one of your updates and I didn't know if it was an oversight or if the idea is that you only can do psi on overwatch when being fired upon and not in the other alternative.

5) nerfing.. the fact that you try to make vehicles not battlefield dominating.. something that I must say you have totally achieved.. with the no overwatch and the -2 to spotting ... I love it.. it is not easy to find platoon level rules where vehicles don't dominate...

6) I get it with direct attacks, but for example if calling a precision air strike.. should I consider that the attack comes from the facing of the point where the attack finally landed ?  I couldn't find a reference to that..


Ok.. something that came up today and something I had overlook on first reading of the rules...
Vehicles.. don't get cover saves I understand, but can they claim, broken line of sight, soft cover and hard cover ( the to hit penalties ) ?

Also.. in cover you get the cover save and the cover mod, right ? So a unit with 5+ save in soft cover saves on 4+ as armor save modified by traits from the attacker or can choose the 5+ from light cover that never gets reduced, right ?  ( I had missed that you also get the add to cover mod before choosing which one to use... ).



What a fun set of rules...   truly...  we need the robots expansion Smiley ....

Thanks for taking a few minutes from your vacation to answer this !!!

We are having a blast/4"  Smiley ...


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Agis
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2017, 08:43:22 AM »

We played again today..   Game was even better than last time... almost every infantry unit on the table moved using hide, infiltrate and take cover... dramatic difference.. the game was all about pushing and suppression.. much fewer casualties...
>>> sounds about right to me. All the design goals i wanted seem fulfilled! Wink


1) ferocious: it is mentioned as a modifier on page 20 but only on the first assault description.. doesn't show up in the modifiers on the same page under the "Assaulting units in Cover" it also didn't show up in Assaulting a structure. I guess from your answer that the modifier should always be there so I'll use it like that.
I thought that this was part of the difference.. for example also on page 20 it says all Damage dice from the assaulting unit can be re-rolled but it doesn't say that when assaulting a unit in a structure, so I assumed that you only got this advantage when assaulting in the open or in cover not when assaulting a structure.
>>> ahhh, now I see. i will update the book in march, ferocity is always "on" as you said, even in structures.

4) overwatch, page 22, second paragraph of overwatch "..immediately make a free Shoot or Move action" ... later on page 23 following on the paragraph indicating that a unit can take an overwatch action when coming under fire it says "... that unit may make an immediate move, or shoot or Use Psi action"
I know this is one of your updates and I didn't know if it was an oversight or if the idea is that you only can do psi on overwatch when being fired upon and not in the other alternative.
>>> same here, you can take an overwatch psi action just as a move or shoot action.
When reacting to shooting you have to use psi against the shooting unit or yourself, to embolden yourself (mental shield etc.)!

5) nerfing.. the fact that you try to make vehicles not battlefield dominating.. something that I must say you have totally achieved.. with the no overwatch and the -2 to spotting ... I love it.. it is not easy to find platoon level rules where vehicles don't dominate...
>>> Great! So nerfing is down toning? But it is not a real word or? I have read it somewhere else but could not really place it, gamer slang?

6) I get it with direct attacks, but for example if calling a precision air strike.. should I consider that the attack comes from the facing of the point where the attack finally landed ?  I couldn't find a reference to that..
>>> Keep in mind that the initial Target Point must be in the commanding unit's Line of Sight! The strike has also the indirect feature.
"...the Strike itself is resolved immediately as a Shoot Action using one of the following weapon profiles with the Indirect feature.  "
See Indirect : "For indirect attacks against vehicles use the closest facing to the Target Point. If the Target Point is directly on the centre of the model, use the weakest facing. If in doubt the attacking player can choose the facing. "
So if the centre of the model is in LoS you can use even the weakest facing.

Ok.. something that came up today and something I had overlook on first reading of the rules...
Vehicles.. don't get cover saves I understand, but can they claim, broken line of sight, soft cover and hard cover ( the to hit penalties ) ?
>>> Yes! See p.45 2nd example.

Also.. in cover you get the cover save and the cover mod, right ? So a unit with 5+ save in soft cover saves on 4+ as armor save modified by traits from the attacker or can choose the 5+ from light cover that never gets reduced, right ?  ( I had missed that you also get the add to cover mod before choosing which one to use... ).
>>> yes, see the table on p.26


What a fun set of rules...   truly...  we need the robots expansion
>>> I am honestly not sure anymore, most things can be done already.
I would feel like cheating if i sell a book with renamed abilities (self repair being regeneration etc.)
I even started a topic here: http://www.lead-adventure.de/index.php?topic=83704.0
Maybe start a new one, if we have enough unique ideas I am absolutely willing to write it!

Thanks for taking a few minutes from your vacation to answer this !!!
>>> I always like to talk about my games! Wink
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seldon
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2017, 04:17:16 PM »

Thanks again for all the answers. I swear I looked in detail through the rules but there is always that one line that one misses...

True, using rival species some traits can be leveraged.. but an army list like the ones that you create for each faction is always worth something, rival species on wargame vault is what 7-9 dollars hardly cheating Smiley  your books/expansions are great... I'll look at the thread in detail...

cheers
Francisco
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