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Author Topic: Varnish (or not to)  (Read 5871 times)
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dodge
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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2009, 04:06:24 PM »

You specifically want to spray in low humidity, so that your models stay not frosty.  Seriously.

I am more inclined to brush my varnish on. I keep hearing horror stories of failed attempts when spraying. Brush on seems safer. Huh?

I do both depending on time, spraying is ok as long as the tin hasn't beenhanging around for too long
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« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2009, 08:05:48 PM »

Better safe than sorry I'd say.

Not too long ago I was transporting about 150 FOW model vehicles from a show back to home. Quite unusual there weren't yet varnished (demo purposes you know) when  adoped up @#{#@ driver cut me off. Braking and swerving  for all I was worth,splitting a toenail in the process, I heard some 150 unvarnished, airbrushed vehicles smashing into each other. You don't want to have that happen to you.

Lord Nelson gloss varnish , intended for wooden ships, will protect them from a small nuclear detonation. Other brands may offer equal protection levels.

Afterwards spray on a good matte varnish, like for example the HMG one sold by Jules of Figures In Comfort. Quite matt and very strong.

Testors Dullcoat is hailed as the next best thing to sex and sliced bread, but it isn't a varnish at all. It's a lacquer and a quite agressive one to boot. It may either protect or 'eat' your figures.







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« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2009, 09:06:15 PM »

Testors Dullcoat is hailed as the next best thing to sex and sliced bread, but it isn't a varnish at all. It's a lacquer and a quite agressive one to boot. It may either protect or 'eat' your figures.

Well, better than sliced bread anyway. Never had any problems with Dullcote at all. I do, however, following the recommendation of using it after gloss varnishing.
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Hammers
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« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2009, 11:17:14 PM »

Good miniature hygiene the Hammers way is to:

*wash and gently brush the miniature with detergent to remove oils and release agents

*prime the model in a purpose made paint, not too thickly, just enough to cover all nooks and crannies ( I use GW)

*when painted, spray with several thin layers of enamel or lacquer gloss coat (I use Vallejo and Testors)

*brush on a final layer of acrylic matt coat; retouch if necessary when dry (I use a local art shop brand which never seems to burst out in white spots)


This topic is resurrected ever so often but rather than hammering a stake through it I shall raise it to the pantheon of stickies. *waves the Staff of Moderation +20* Let it be so.
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« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2009, 12:30:51 AM »

If I may chime in, I´d suggest varnishing figures in any case. Choosing the suitable varnish depends on the type of model, I guess.

For pure display models, Vallejo Matte Varnish (Brush variety) is excellent. Dilutes well with water, and gives an excellent clear finish - but you must take care that the water is 100% clean, otherwise you might get some white-ish "clouding".

For gaming models, AKA "anything I paint for myself" Laugh I always use a first coat of artists gloss varnish, Marabu and Nerchau being favourites, but I am sure that there are 100% equivalent products in other countries. This gives a very durable surface and if you apply a number of thin coats, you can also keep the shine to a minimum (on the other hand, a thick coat enhances glossy surfaces and glass areas tremendously, IMHO). Finally, a top coat using a matte varnish like the aforementioned Vallejo (which is the best in terms of flatness and very much recommended as a "compromise" between matte finish and "protection", IMHO) gives a nice flat finish.

As an afterthought, I fully agree with the aspect that a little extra effort for the varnishing saves you a lot of repair time.
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« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2009, 02:36:56 AM »

Hi all, I'm "new" to the site but as someone said once "I have figures older than some of the people I game with!" so I have been around the "workbench" a long time. I remember when people never coated their figures and mounted them on card stock to be stored in a used Pizza box! It would amaze me that they took the time to buy, paint, and mount the figures but the "extra" step of protection was too much! Every game day there would be another person with a "jammed on the brakes" story" and a box of chipped bent minis! It was during this time I began mounting my minis on magnetic sign stock. While I did not invent the mounting style (at least I imagine someone did it somewhere else before me) I did "refine" it and in my neck of the woods many people now mount there figures the way I do. I have an article on mounting on my website that was written by me for the now sadly defunct "Wargamer" magazine about 10-15 years ago. I have it posted on my website you can check it out there www.historicalhobbies.com. Wow have I gotten off track...Laugh.. I was going to comment on TESTORS Dull and Glosscoat. I have used many different finishes over the years and from experience I know that Testors is better than sliced bread! I used shellac, varnish, Krylon Matt and Gloss sprays and more, but for the last 10 years or more it’s been Testors exclusively and I have had 0 problems if used properly…. I spray my protective covers as opposed to brushing them on. I do this because many times I use several different mediums of paint on a mini, lacquer, acrylic, ect… and some of the protective covering have agents in them that will “soften” or “re animate” your paint! If your brushing this “pressure” might lead to disaster! Spraying is very gentile and everything should dry out and be fine. Also a note that “Magic Wash” which contains an Acrylic "floor" wax will “seal” the paint” and protect to a point but it does not offer the same level of protection as a gloss coat.

For me the 3 most important traits a “protective” sealer must have are:

1: Ability to really protect a miniature or model
2: Not be “destructive” or “appearance” changing to Mini or Model
3: To have the “Stability” to last over time without  color, clarity, or finish change!

There is a 4th consideration to I think, the cost and ease of application.

I used various “Varnishes” in the past but they are not specifically designed for application over miniatures and I have found that some tend to “yellow” with age and while this being great on boats and antique furniture stinks on your minis! So without going further this is what I do:

Once I finish painting a pice I let the mini “dry” for a day to assure there is no “wet” paint or wash left as this will cause the “white” bloom sometimes seen after coating. I use an old hairdryer to cheat! I then SPRAY coat the mini with 2 (TWO!) coats of GLOSS coat  separated by at least 1-2 hours of dry time. Let dry again, hair dryer time again if you want to cheat! Then I mount my figures and do any base paint/flock. At this point I use to Spray dull coat on the figs AND flocking but I have learned a new trick. I found that basing flocks no matter how well glued and done suffered over time and if they get dusty were tuff to clean. I one day decided to try GLOSS coat the basing too! It works great! By coating the flocking or other basing material you give it protection and strength it would not normally have it also helps to glue it in place and protects it from fading! After this step has dried Dull coat to taste and you have the best looking/protected mini on the planet! The double layer of glosscoat gives a lot of added strength to the small “stick out” parts on your minis. Even though my minis are cased they do pick up dust over time and I have found that the coated mini and base can be GENTILY washed under a warm flow of tap water and GENTILY “scrubbed” with a large/soft/but sort of firm paint or make up brush “nikd” from you wife or girlfriend! Note I base on magnets or metal stock so if you STILL use card stock be careful! I then blow off excess water and dry with hairdryer. If my minis get a lot of use and the matt is wearing into the gloss I will give them a re-spray.

Things you don’t want to do are spray in very cold situations or very damp. This can lead to milking of the finish and coverage problems with almost any coatings. Also in high heat situations your “spray” can actually be drying some before getting to the miniature! This will produce a “frosting” effect or possibly a ruff sandy finish (happens with paint too!)

I used to apply my TESTORS Gloss/Dull coat from their spray cans but the spray is too heavy and the cost and trouble to find it was a pain. Long ago I stepped up to a “Badger” airbrush and it has paid for itself 100 times over in savings not to mention the added creative tool to paint with! I now buy my Testors in their 2oz bottles at about $3 US which is about $1 less than a can and goes at least 5 times as far and covers much better. I also found that I could “mix” the two, Dull and Gloss to create a semi gloss that works very well for minis that should not be “dead” flat nor “new car” gloss, I used a semi gloss on my Red lacquer Samurai army!

USE GLOSS COAT if you want to protect your minis or model, matt coat really offers little if any real protection. Gloss coating also is a must do when you are applying decals! It avoids the “silvering” you get by trying to apply them over “matt” finish. The silvering is the micro air bubbles trapped between the matt finish and the decal that is not tight to the finish do to the micro rough surface that gives the matt look raising up the decal. This also applies to the setting and sizing process of using a product like “Micro Sol” to “melt or soften a decal causing it to confirm to a models uneven surface, IE rivets. If you do not have a “slick” gloss surface for the decal to “slide” across as it shrinks and dries it will “silver” and “tent” (lay over a bump not confirm to it). After the Decal has set and is dry (24 hours) re gloss area to seal in decal and then use matt or a semi gloss to taste. Your decals will look painted on!

Sorry for so long a post but that’s me when I get going! Maybe this should be somewhere else….Laugh

Regards, Bill Witthans / Vonkluge here or Major Roller at the Bengal Club!

When I was younger it was “So many girls so little time” now it’s “So many minis so little time” with the exception of my wonderful wife the minis have lasted a lot longer…lol!
« Last Edit: February 20, 2009, 09:40:32 AM by Vonkluge » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2009, 08:38:54 AM »

Thanks Kluge and welcome.
I think this thorough post is perfect for a sticky topic.
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« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2009, 06:14:13 PM »


  I concur - make it a Sticky. After reading, re-reading, and RE-re-reading the post, it confirms that which I already know: that experience and practice make a better tutorial than simply reading the methods in a book or magazine. This experience is invaluable to both newcomers and veterans alike.
  Well done, Vonkluge.

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« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2009, 11:32:34 PM »

I use Vallejo Matt Varnish Spray. I apply 2 o 3 light coats, waiting to dry between them.

The trick is to shake the spray with energy, at least during 2 minutes. If you do it, it´s quite sure that varnish and thinner will mix well in the can and no undesired gloss will appear.

In case that any gloss appears I apply a thin coat of Vallejo Model Air Matt Varnish using the aerograph. It doesn´t protect too much, but you get a perfect matt finish.
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« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2009, 01:52:20 PM »

Hmm, I used matt varnish on models and it made them go milky and orrible, I used gloss and found them all shiny and orrible, so i tried another method, after undercoating I use a matt varnish, allow it to dry and paint. Only had a few chip problems and that was after a year of abuse in a cardboard box.
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« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2010, 01:34:59 PM »

I had to re-read Orctrader's link again as I used the method but added thinners to thin the varnish and big mistake, results were shiney and white  streaks. So to follow his method exactly the thin coats are achieved by brushing the varnish thinly over the figure and it works - current batch is absolutely flat finish.

And for those that use the new Dullcote the trick is to lightly spray the figures in a number of coats, not douse them in varnish as with the old Dullcote - check out the info from Antenocitis
http://www.sdean-forum.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24735&start=30
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