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Author Topic: GoT Compendium - Community Feedback Thread - HERALDRY???  (Read 3163 times)
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Hupp n at em
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« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2016, 03:25:34 AM »

I'm a solid 5.  I have a few thoughts re: the additional components being discussed, beyond the simple (hah! right...) indexing of people's various existing GoT plogs.

Heraldry: I'm not opposed to this; there are quite a few external resources for this, though as was discussed in sukhe_bator's thread, these can be a bit goofy and unreliable at times.

As for the kitbashing/miniatures guide and scenarios/rules, I'm a 6 out of 5.  That seems right there with the thread compilation in terms of being directly relevant to the hobby.
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« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2016, 06:18:51 PM »

NEEDED INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY HIVE MIND

In our Compendium thread you'll see a placeholder post for Westerosi heraldry, per the earlier discussion. When I started to frame it out last night, I began to realize it could be a high effort/low return quagmire.

Which led me back to the question: "What does the community need, what would aid or inspire their hobby efforts?"

My first draft answer is, "Visual or textual references to house heraldry superior to those easily found on:
> "The Citadel" here:http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Heraldry/
> awoiaf.westeros here: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Category:Coat_of_arms_images

Charlie_ has already shared some thoughts via PM. (Thank you, Charles)  I invite your recommendations in the posts below

All views welcome!
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« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2016, 08:11:37 PM »

As my heraldry is as per the TV series, l'm just lifting screenshots  Cheesy
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« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2016, 09:32:23 PM »

Well, as already intimated, I think some of the Citadel and AWOIAF entries on sigils are suspect in the extreme. So a topic which prioritises what we know about GoT heraldry based on what is actually set out by GRRM in his books (rather than what other people have invented in the privacy of thier own imaginations) would be a useful and welcome resource  Smiley

Maybe illustrated with LAFers own painted / printed interpretations of those liveries / sigils on miniatures? (Which would at least give it a bit of LAF 'value-add'  Smiley
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« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2016, 09:41:27 PM »

I completely agree with the Captain!

And I'd be willingly to help when and wherever needed of course!
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« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2016, 09:46:05 PM »

Maybe illustrated with LAFers own painted / printed interpretations of those liveries / sigils on miniatures? (Which would at least give it a bit of LAF 'value-add'  Smiley

This resonates for me for the reason given.
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« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2016, 08:44:00 AM »

I would suggest that everybody who is reading the books at the moment takes nots of the sigil and posts them on LAF.
So whoever wants to paint one up could do so and post his efforts here as well.
I have read all the books myself but it would be difficult and very time consuming to reread them all to find the description of the sigils.
So collecting quotes  here might be a first step in working on the heraldry. What do you think?
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« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2016, 09:35:19 AM »

I'm already on it tomrommel1 Grin

I agree that a primarily book-driven heraldry reference is probably the way forward.

For those of us GoTers using the TV series as a creative springboard (and be honest chaps our figure selection is by and large dictated by the visual impact of the series to at least some degree), having the original refs will give insight on how the TV series have interpreted the text. I've found that approach quite informative when I've perused the 'Art of' and conceptual design books behind the LoTR and Hobbit films. 

I am doing precisely what tomrommel1 has suggested - skimming thru the books looking at all the heraldry and banner refs. The ASOIAF Wiki cites the Book and character chapter number in the notes (not altogether that helpful since you've got to keep count of each character's totals on the way). It does not quote the page refs. I have found that by and large the citations in the ASOIAF Wiki are basically correct, but its the interpretation of the heraldry refs that Cpn Blood and I both appear to take issue with.

I'm using the Harper Voyager p/b eds by Harper Collins 2012.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=game+of+thrones+harper+voyager&espv=2&biw=2240&bih=1202&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi3iL6I5fHKAhUJQhQKHUGsAyUQsAQIIQ&dpr=0.75#imgrc=oA5pavsZF1IkLM%3A

a.t.m. I've compiled info from Game of Thrones (GOT), Clash of Kings (COK), Storm of Swords Pt1 (SOS:1), Pt2 (SOS:2), and A feast of Crows (AFOC).
I have been quoting the page refs for these in previous posts. I'm happy to re-post what I have so far in some order/format agreeable to everyone...

Any minor/more unusual ASOIAF Wiki refs I've been interested that I've missed I've been chasing up separately.


 
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« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2016, 12:12:40 PM »

Yes please, post your references sukhe_bator! would be much appreciated .
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« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2016, 04:28:32 PM »

Speaking of heraldry, this is what I was planning on basing my initial Direwolf Rampant armies on: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/War_Across_the_Water
So I should be able to add a few less common Northern and Vale examples to the mix...  Wink
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« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2016, 05:49:35 PM »

Nice one Hupp n at em!
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« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2016, 05:58:35 PM »

Speaking of heraldry, this is what I was planning on basing my initial Direwolf Rampant armies on: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/War_Across_the_Water
So I should be able to add a few less common Northern and Vale examples to the mix...  Wink

That's a great idea!

Wow, I didn't realise that war apparently went on for 1,000 years.
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Hupp n at em
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« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2016, 04:16:33 AM »

That's a great idea!

Wow, I didn't realise that war apparently went on for 1,000 years.

Yeah, it's pretty nuts.  I have no plans to model them differently because of the time difference, still going to be a mix of Fireforge/Perry plastics, with some Perry, Claymore Castings, and Crusader metals.  Claymore has not made a figure I don't drool over, and the Crusader late crusaders in gambesons just speak to me.  I must have them.  Love Laugh

I'm thinking that the Northern forces will comprise the following houses:
Stark
Bolton
Cerwyn
Locke
Hornwood
Flint of Widow's Watch
Slate
Umber
Karstark

Besides the two Sistermen houses whose heraldry is described (Sunderland and Borrel), the opposing Valemen will comprise:
Arryn
Rhoyce
Pryor
Belmore
Hersy
Elesham
Hunter
Egen
Lynderly
Melcolm
Grafton
etc...

Just a rough list, I tried to justify it by location (mostly Eastern/Southeastern Houses for the North, mostly Northern/Eastern/coastal houses for the Arryns, and include some of those listed as "principle" vassals for each).  I know The Vale is the "stronghold of chivalry" but good god, some of those houses above have horribly ugly heraldry.  Shocked  Starting to think maybe I should go for style over logic here...   Laugh
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 04:18:24 AM by Hupp n at em » Logged
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« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2016, 12:29:30 PM »

I like how that war could potentially portray the North as the villains. Or not, depending on who's side you see it from. Of course there are no good guys and bad guys.

Though this guy definitely seems pretty bad....

" Belthasar Bolton made a "Pink Pavilion" out of the flayed skins of a hundred Sistermen"
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Captain Blood
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« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2016, 12:50:26 PM »


Wow, I didn't realise that war apparently went on for 1,000 years.

This is where you have to remember that GRRM, despite his meticulous 'world-building' and generally quite realistic approach, is a fantasy author...
The idea that a war which took place 2,000 years before the events of ASOIAF (according to the AWOIAF entry), was prosecuted by the Arryns of the Vale, and that they were a dominant house then and still a dominant house 2,000 years later, is obviously bananas in human historical terms...
I don't think there's a single royal house or noble dynasty in the history of the world anywhere that's lasted for more than two or three hundred years at most.
The notion that the same ruling family has managed to remain reproductively intact, never mind militarily and politically dominant, for 2,000 years... And that the broadly medieval setting of that world has remained largely unchanged across such an enormous timespan... Well, it reminds us that this is just a fairy story after all Smiley

But I digress. Back on topic... Wade, it's looking good... Thank you for your efforts to pull this together. Are you nearing readiness to publish and be damned?  Cool
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