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Author Topic: My Robotech/Macross Project : Battle Cry (Fighting Fives) - Battle Report Page 6  (Read 12031 times)
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Elbows
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« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2012, 10:00:58 PM »

Yeah, I think that's pretty darn small for 1/100.  The problem with Robotech is that no one (even the original animators) really scaled much.  The general consensus is that destroids should be 35-40' tall, where Veritechs would be perhaps 42-48' foot tall, and Zentraedi Pods would be closer to 60' tall (since they're piloted by 35-45' tall Zentraedi soldiers.

I'll go snag some measurements and pictures now, and be back in a bit.
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Scurv
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« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2012, 12:37:22 AM »

Sorry for the slight derail below

The deeper I get into this project the less it looks viable to do the unseen in 28mm. Not only does the macross stuff seem out of scale at times but then I have to work around the fact the FASA guys just forcebly shoehorned the kits into their own mech designs. For example the warhammer (macross tomahawk) is only 5 tons lighter than the marauder (officer pod) yet as you mentioned the destroids were the small mechs in macross. Do I get really big destroids? If so the cost is going to start getting rather extreme. Add to that the weapon loadouts for battletech does not match what you see on those big kits. For example the Tommo has multi missile launchers in the pectorial area (which your gashapon show wonderfully) yet the stats for the warhammer (tommo) it has no missiles. Despite mind you a full page pic on page one of the first edition of the battletech book showing a warhammer with open missile pods.  Hypno which I might add is the very same pic used in my Tomahawk box art. The weapons in the lower torso of the same kit are more numerous than the weapons in the warhammers stats as well. 

Then in BT Mechs range from about 7m to 14m tall. Using a 28mm fig representing about 6' alot of stuff measures up ok but there is no possible way a 28mm fig could fit in the head of many of the mechs. The officer pod being the exception because as you mentioned it was designed for giants to drive. (it is 16.55m tall according to the box info)

Its enough to drive one mad.  Grin 
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Elbows
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« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2012, 01:01:53 AM »

Well...if you wanted to do Battletech in a slightly smaller scale, it seems the majority of 1/200 kits and models scale well, and you could use any variety of 15-20mm infantry/vehicles...would be very easy to whip up a bunch.

I agree though, once you hit that 1/72-1/60 spot for Macross you enter the beautiful new, but expensive kits...Some of them are simply mouth-watering, and many can actually be purchased as action figures, but for quite hefty sums.

http://www.figures.com/forums/news/10713-yamato-japans-1-60-macross-destroid-tomahawk.html

These 1/60 figures are about $65...but damn they look sweet... Cheesy
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Scurv
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« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2012, 01:37:01 AM »

Will a five inch tall destroid tomahawk work for your needs?

15mm/20mm is an option but I dont want to go there. I only have 28m figs and i aint gonna change horses this late in the race. I do have a few cunning plans but this is your macross thread not my BT thread so I dont want to derail it like I did to poor Michkas. (sorry Michka)

That being said I am more than happy to give you a heads up when I find stuff that fits your game plan. You Macross people have been incredibly insightful and your combined knowledge is a breathtaking and beautiful thing.

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Elbows
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« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2012, 01:54:13 AM »

The Tomahawks I have measure in around 4" or just a tad over, and they're the biggest models of the bunch.  So 5" would be out of scale with the rest of the stuff.  I got word my Shapeways models are coming in! Woohoo!

Today and yesterday's bounty:

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Scurv
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« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2012, 03:14:10 AM »

My kits arrived yesterday from hobbylink. I will start a thread on my growing robot army pretty soon.
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Elbows
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« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2012, 11:00:11 AM »

Update...well I received my Shapeways order from Mpennock's store.  My first time dealing with 3D-printed stuff.  I've been pleasantly surprised.  I noticed a couple of things.

1) The texture is rough, much rougher on some than others...and I'm too lazy to go through and super-file everything.  However, the models turned out well, without much prep-work.

2) Sometimes the material soaks up primer/glue, so I'm happy I had some gel-super glue on hand.

3) Because of the finish and slight reduction in small details, they make excellent game pieces.

Please forgive the photos (I need to get a better damn camera and light source...)



Three of the four Zentraedi Pods I ordered.  Keeping one spare.



The Male Power Armour, previously un-tried by Mpennock per his PM.  I gave it a shot, and other than the leg joints being a little flimsy, it all went together nicely.  I simply glued the waist-plate armour slabs to the legs and pelvis to help hold it all together.



Scales perfectly alongside the other stuff.  I was iffy about the Male Power Armour when I got it, mainly because I wasn't sure how well it would turn out painted, and to be fair the pictures I took look far worse than looking at it on the table top.  Once I finished it I fell in love with it, and will order 2-4 more when money allows.  Great piece.

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« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2012, 03:09:20 PM »

Those look great! The best solution I've found for the rough finish on the models is to give them an extra layer or two of primer. The material loves to absorb paint, so a little extra certainly doesn't hurt. As you noted, the material is lightweight and tough and makes for excellent gaming models. I like the look of the Male Powered Armor, you did a nice job on them.

Are we going to see a Monster on the table soon?
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Elbows
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« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2012, 08:06:00 PM »

I don't know about soon...that's a big ole model and will require a lot of work.  I've been putting off doing my bread and butter units (Veritechs and Battle Pods) so I think I need to roll up my sleeves and pump those out before I even think about tackling the Monster.  I did get my Quel-Quallie scout pod today, and it's reasonable enough scale to use I think.
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Michka
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« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2012, 06:45:25 AM »

Oh my. I love that Male Power Armor. Need to get some of those. You did a great job painting those as well as the fighter pods.
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« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2012, 05:14:01 PM »

Those 3d printed models look way better than the pre-painted gashapon stuff, that's some fine work. If you want to get rid of the rough texture I'd second the suggestion of another coat or 2 of primer, maybe also a quick scrub with some fine grain sandpaper.

slightly OT, but does anyone have the 1/144 Queadluun Rau model? I'm thinking of using one for a Warmachine colossal if it's big enough. The colossals are about 5.5" tall, and the female power armor is way better than the actual Retribution Hyperion model and won't cost me over a hundred bucks.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2012, 05:33:45 PM by kalamadea » Logged

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mpennock
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« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2012, 08:50:35 PM »

Quote
does anyone have the 1/144 Queadluun Rau model?

I've got one that I built a couple of years ago. It stands 5-3/4" tall to the top of the antenna, slightly less than that to the top of the shoulder missile pods.
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Elbows
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« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2012, 12:19:46 AM »

Yep, there is definitely a 1/144 Queadluun-Rau model out there...Bandai or Imai if memory serves (I think Imai).  They make the Male Power Armour too.

First Playtest a Success!

So (excuse the lack of pictures!) I managed to convince my brother to swing by and help me playtest my first game...and it went shockingly well.  We picked up a handful of situations I hadn't made rules for, and generally had a great time.  The game paced perfectly, rules became second nature in about 3-4 turns, and we both had a good time.  Game was between two forces:

1x Veteran Armored Veritech
1x Spartan w/ Gu-11
1x Veteran VF-1S Veritech
2x Tomahawk destroids
1x VF-1J Veritech

vs.

2x Heavy Missile Battle Pods
1x Veteran Female Power Armour
1x Veteran Glaug Officer
1x Male Power Armour
1x Fighter Pod

It was purposely small scale, and played out to about 2 hours, which included a lot of discussion about rules, and clarifications, etc...so figure perhaps a nie 1-1:30 skirmish.  Convention games will feature perhaps 15-20 models per side, with 3-4 players a side if it scales up well enough.

Highlights:
- Glaug slugged it out with a Veritech and Tomahawk before finally succumbing.
- Armored Veritech stomped up the middle of the field, engaging almost every enemy until they turned all fire on him to bring him down.
- Veritech made the mistake of taking off in Guardian mode, but lost 50% of his speed due to the change...and was immediately wiped out by heavy missiles from the pods.
- Female Power Armour flew down the center, took tons of fire, eventually took a critical hit causing her to shutdown...fell and crashed through a building, and was put out of her misery by the Spartan with his Gu-11.
- Zentraedi Fighter Pod kept speed above 20" most of the game, making him incredibly hard to hit.  16 missiles from the Armored Veritech could not bring him down when he was already critically damaged.
- Despite rolling full dice on all my Gu-11 attacks, none of them ever ran out of ammunition, which was a treat.
- Monster artillery barrage (off board action card) turned the tide of the game, inflicting severe damage on most of the remaining Zentraedi
- Game finished with no Zentraedi models remaining, and two damaged destroids and a damaged Veritech on the UN Spacy side.

After about 4-5 weeks of rules creation, and playtesting in my head, I was stoked to see how well it played out.  I'll be doing another playtest in a few weeks, and then take it on the road to my buddy's place, and see if it holds up - then I'll start prepping for a convention slot.  I've made a lot of amateur rules sets in my day, and this was by far the most fun, successful first game I've ever played.
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Elbows
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« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2012, 01:17:57 AM »

Update as the Zentraedi Forces continue to grow.  Finished some more specialty pods before starting on the large batch of normal Tactical Pods.  Also did up another Gashapon Officer's Pod which I like much better than the first.  Have a couple of Defender destroids being assembled right now...need to pump out the VF-1A's, and Tactical Pods shortly.



The Pods...my least favorite kits to build unfortunately - very time consuming and annoying, and often mis-aligned.  I also suck at painting them, which is pissing me off.  The recon pods look awful, but I have a spare box of them and may give them another go.



The new officer's pod which I really like.  The Gashapon figure is still a big pain to deal with (poor sculpt, flexy material) but it paints up nice enough!



The bulk of "special" Zentraedi mecha.  I'll be adding about a dozen battle pods, one or two more male power armour, and my Quel-Quallie scout vessel and the Zentraedi will be done.

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Elbows
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« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2012, 12:00:55 AM »

I did a play-test game to show off what the game system plays out like.  I took notes, and snapped some photos using one of my HD video-cameras because it happened to be bolted to the tripod.  Sadly the images came out pretty poor, but good enough for government work.

Disclaimer 1: I am using my "first run" action card decks.  I have since significantly changed them to even out the game, and add a bit more variety/spice.

Disclaimer 2: I am using some 1/72 scale model rail-road terrain...simply because I have zero N-scale terrain done up.

Disclaimer 3: I somehow managed to have possibly the worst rolling in the history of gaming throughout this play-test (yes I'm playing both sides!).  Many turns passed with tons of dice rolled, with little result.  While this was mostly luck (it conflicted with the previous playtest) I am also looking at some minor rules modifications.

The Forces:

ZENTRAEDI:  The Z in this scenario have a Officer's Battle Pod (Hardened Veteran), three fighter pods (confident soldier), and six battle pods consisting of two recon pods, two light artillery pods, and two heavy artillery pods (all confident soldier).  In the even that they draw their reinforcement card, another Officer's Pod (confident soldier) is available.



UN SPACY: UN Spacy start a bit on the backfoot in this game (intentionally).  They have two spartans, two defenders, one tomahawk and two VF-1A Veritechs (all confident soldier).  If they draw their reinforcement card, they received a VF-1S, and VF-1J which enter the board in guardian mode (both hardened veterans).



The Table:
This is interesting to me.  I originally thought the game would simply need a 6x10' or larger board.  Most of the mecha can shoot over 36-48" and units can fly 24" in a turn (some even faster in space).  I've been playing on this simple oval dining room table, and thus far it's been more suitable than I'd imagined.  This is encouraging because it means the 4'x8' normal gaming table will be perfect - whereas larger tables can be used for serious scenarios.



The Game Mechanics:
The game mechanics consist of a very simple base set of rules, with numerous specialties added, depending on mecha/scenarios/conditions.  For the purposes of this review, here are the simplest terms:  Each side has an action deck.  This action deck consists of 55 cards, 40 activation cards, and 15 specialty cards (this has been changed to 40/20 for the new decks).  Activation cards let you move/attack with units, where specialty cards represent unique circumstances/tactics/bombardments.  Each side draws an initial three cards.  Initiative is rolled, and players take turns drawing a single action card from their deck and then playing or discarding an action card.  Each unit in the game is assigned a morale/skill level based on four tiers, ranging from D6-D12.  The "fighting fives" system is called that because when taking any test, or doing any weapon damage etc., the goal result is always a 5+.  Each unit has X-number of hit points, and a full detail sheet covering weapons, movement, special rules, etc.

(The rest of the battle report is done in a quasi-narrative to skip over most of the gaming details, and show the flow of the game)

The UN Spacy started the engagement by bringing in an AWACs unit to attempt to highlight enemy Zentraedi on radar.  This managed to only lock onto one fighter pod. (Radar locks allow missiles to ignore all negative modifiers).  The Zentraedi were already on the move though, fighter pods rocketing forward, missiles streaking in on one of the Defender destroids.  Battle Pods moved forward behind them.  The Fighter Pods knew they needed to eliminate the Defenders which were purpose built anti-aircraft units.  The Fighter Pods also pushed maximum throttle, hoping their speed would protect them from enemy fire.



While one of the Defenders suffered damage, it managed to inflict an equal amount of damage on one of the fighter pods.  It's heavy autocannons easily able to track the Fighter Pods due to the Defender's advanced anti-aircraft radar.  The Zentraedi continued to swarm forward, one of the scout pods highlighting two more destroids with its radar.  All the way across town a single heavy artillery pod launched one of its deadly missiles at an unaware Veritech.  The Veritech pilot attempted to dodge, but failed and suffered severe damage (Skill level dropped due to damage suffered).

The Tomahawk destroid moved forward, firing its lethal particle beam cannons at one of the Fighter Pods, but its speed was too much for the pilot to counter.  The beams speared off into the sky without effect.  (At full speed, a fighter pod causes its attacker to lose -2 skill levels when trying to strike it)  The Fighter pods fiercely attack the damaged Defender destroid, inflicting damage, even setting off one of its ammo drums.  The Defender is a flaming, smoking wreck, but still able to avoid the last few missiles, and remains in action.  It stumbles forward on smoking servos and fires into the sky, hitting one of the fighter pods.  The fighter pod is immobilized and crashes into the ground, exploding.



Next to the Defender, one of the Spartans hoses the sky with its Gu-11 gun pod and mini-missiles...inflicting minimal damage on one of the fighter pods screaming past.

Above the UN Spacy forces, the clouds disappear as an orbital bombardment of heavy lasers erupt from the sky.  Massive explosions damage one of the Veritechs, both Spartans, and both Defenders, finally destroying the damaged, crippled Defender.  Moments later, two Veritechs bearing the familiar Skull Squadron livery scream onto the field, and transform immediately into battloid mode, taking a position near the advancing battle pods. 



Immediately after arriving, the pilot of the VF-1J hears the tell-tale warning of a missile lock.  He turns his head just in time to see a heavy missile bearing down on him.  He takes the blast, and shakes it off, suffering on minimal damage.  Behind the Veritech, the remaining Defender churns into life, auto-cannons raking the sky, inflicting seemingly insignificant damage on one of the fighter pods.  Across the town, the lead Spartan again unleashes a flurry of Gu-11, missiles, and defensive lasers at the other fighter pod, dealing it serious damage.

The VF-1J barely has time to check himself before a swarm of missiles engulf him.  His Veritech is rocked by explosions, armor and materials ripping off.  His missiles ignite under the explosion, tearing off his wings and doing severe damage.  His cockpit lights up with warning lights as he struggles to keep his Veritech upright.   Nearby, his Skull Squadron wingman is firing his Gu-11 into the midst of the enemy battle pods, scoring little damage.

Nearby, one of the remaining fighter pods pulls hard into the sky, trying to avoid enemy fire.  A Veritech on the ground is gunning for him.  Moments later two bright beams pierce the fighter pod, incinerating it instantly.  The Tomahawk pilot has found his mark.  The remaining Zentraedi fighter pod aims skyward and punches his thrusters - blasting into the sky, beyond sight.  (this fighter pod is using the "Fly High" card, allowing a flying unit to leave the table until the player activates it to return in a future turn)

Watching the action from a distance, the Officer's Pod sees a number of small missiles fly past his cockpit.  Pesky humans.  (This was a failed attempt to use the "UEDF Commandos" card, which represents commando teams firing rockets from any location you choose).  Next to him, more missiles go skyward, aimed at a distant enemy mecha.  They miss.  Nearby, one of the scout pods falters under a barrage of Gu-11 gunfire, smoke pouring out of its cockpit.  The Officer gives the command to advance, and charges ahead.  He sees a nearby Veritech, smoking, yet still firing.  He calmly fires his particle beam, incinerating it.



Immediately the Officer's battle pod is rocked by enemy fire, as he sees a Tomahawk and Spartan moving toward him, unloading their weapons.

Near him, the VF-1S is having a bad day so far - enemy radar lock and missiles are taking their toll, slowly whittling away at his armor.  He hears a frantic cry from one of the other Veritech pilots that he's run out of ammunition (the Gu-11 is prone to running out of ammunition if you use it unwisely).  The veteran pilot turns and engages the Officer's Pod nearby, riddling his machine with gunfire.  Inside, the Officer howls in pain, as a Gu-11 round strikes him in the arm.  Just as the VF-1S grins, a fighter pod roars into view, missiles streaking from its launchers.  The pilot holds his arms and Gu-11 up to protect himself from the blast, and his gun pod is blown to pieces.  He watches his cockpit light up with warning lights.  He is on borrowed time.



There is a rushing sound, like that of a heavy locomotive, as heavy artillery rounds scream in from over the horizon.  In an instant the Officer's Pod and Scout Pod near him are turned to ash and debris.  UN Spacy artillery spotters shout "good hit on target, good hit!" to the Monster destroid who is 10 miles away.

Missile fire in the middle of town is frantic.  One of the Spartan pilots reports he has been immobilized, and that he's been radar locked.  He's having a bad day.

With his Gu-11 destroyed, and his veritech on the verge of collapse, the Skull Squadron pilot charges at the nearby Scout Pod.  He enters a frantic melee with the mecha.



A distant fighter pod roars above the battlefield, and engages the last remaining Defender destroid.  The Defender takes the brunt of missile strikes, and explodes, debris and wreckage scattering around it. (This was a Zentraedi special card, allowing an off-board fighter pod attack - NOT the actual on-board unit).  Around the exploding Defender, destroids hammer the sky with weapons, trying to strike the remaining Fighter Pod who is artfully speeding through the buildings.  All around, missiles and cannons are scoring damage on destroids, and Veritechs alike.

One of the Tomahawks responds by blasting a heavy battle pod to oblivion with its particle cannons.

In the melee, the VF-1S pilot handily destroys the damaged Scout Pod.  The nearby artillery pod is kicking at his Veritech, inflicting minor damage.  One of the Veritechs behind him pops into Guardian mode to attempt to get more speed to engage the remaining fighter pod.  The fighter pod hops on his tail immediately, trying to shoot him down.



The Veritech pilot punches his thrusters and spins his Veritech in mid-air, grabbing onto the Fighter Pod, punching as best he can, inflicting damage.  (The veritech in this case used the "Push the Limits" card which allows you to activate a unit two turns in a row - something that is normally not allowed.  Because the Fighter pod has zero hand to hand capability, the Veritech is able to score free hits on it).



The Fighter Pod goes full throttle and tries to flee the Guardian mode Veritech.  Below them, the remaining battle pod in hand to hand with the Veritech attemps to flee, but is caught as he tries - and the Veritech rips out his pivot-joint, destroying him.



As the remaining two battle pods were now out of missiles, they closed in together, hoping to use their remaining guns to whittle down the UN Spacy forces.  Above them, the Guardian mode Veritech chased after the fighter pod, shooting it down.  The Battle Pods immediately opened fire, crippling the Veritech who crashed into the building, and exploded.  Immediately following this, the battle pods retreated, unable to face the 6-2 odds facing them.  (this was a conscious choice to end the game, since there was zero chance of the battle pods being able to counter the remaining UN Spacy forces).



END OF GAME

So, that's a sample game of Battle Cry.  It took about 2.5 hours (mainly because I was taking pictures, and copious notes).  Playing both sides is tough, and removes a lot of the tactical/strategic enjoyment of the game.  (ie. setting up cards and tactics several turns in advance, etc.).  Overall though, the game play becomes incredibly smooth, and simple once you get into the swing of things.  Each "turn" can take only a minute or two.  The game I just detailed played out over 49 turns.  That may seem like a lot, but you are playing very rapidly.  All in all, still very happy though I may upgrade the Zentraedi battle pod cannons, as they are pretty weak by comparison to many other weapon systems.

Sorry for the crap photos.  Cheers.
















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